Original-Cin Q&A: Director Ken Loach on his Final Bow with The Old Oak

By Bonnie Laufer

Veteran British director Ken Loach has been making films for just over 50 years. The 87-year-old has won countless awards including the prestigious Palme d'Or, twice, at Cannes, one of only nine filmmakers so acclaimed.

His latest film, The Old Oak is a poignant story focusing on a pub owner who is living in a once-thriving, now struggling mining town and who is trying valiantly to hold onto his establishment. Meanwhile, tensions rise when Syrian refugees are placed in empty houses within the community.

We spoke with Loach via Zoom ahead of the film’s April 5 opening in select theatres. Be sure to read our review of the film.

ORIGINAL-CIN: You have been saying that The Old Oak is your last film. Please tell me that’s not true because I think you still have a lot in you.

KEN LOACH: That’s very kind of you to say, but if I started one now, I’d be 90 by the time we were finished. So, I think the reality is I can't see getting around the course again. Some people can direct from behind the monitor, but I can't! You need to be on your feet, you need to move around and be hands on, at least I do. I think it’s time for a rest (laughs).

O-C: Well, if The Old Oak is your swan song, then you have delivered an impactful, absolutely touching film. You've had this 30-year collaboration with writer Paul Laverty. How did the two of you decide on telling this story?

KL: We talked about what we thought would clarify the situation of these ex-mining villages which had been abandoned for political reasons. The miners’ union was the strongest union and when they were defeated, the right-wing prime minister closed the pit and abandoned the communities. The other party of the so-called left parties had also abandoned them. So, we wanted to show the plight and what has happened and how it is now a seed for racism.

Then Paul heard the story of the Syrian refugees and the Syrian war. There were more people in these villages per head of population than anywhere else in the country. The homes in these little villages were cheap and so many Syrians took refuge there much to the annoyance of many of the townspeople. These refugees had lost everything and came with maybe one suitcase to try to make a better life for themselves. We wanted to tell the story of these two diverse communities coming together and finding a way of living together and even supporting each other. Of course, it puts pressure on the local community, but it also says something about the tragedy the refugees have experienced and why we have to see them as people.

O-C: David Turner, who you've worked with for a couple of your films, anchors The Old Oak as TJ Ballantyne, the owner of the pub. When we learn more about his story, your heart just opens up to him. The other lead is played by newcomer Ebla Mari as one of the Syrians who strikes up a meaningful friendship with TJ. Their connection was wonderful. Did the two actors hit it off immediately? Tell me a little bit about that.

KL: Dave Turner was a fireman most of his life from a nearby village from where we shot this film and worked for the farmers’ union. He's always been political and has a good sense of politics.

But seeing the way politics has gone has brought despair as well and he has really lived it.

So, even though we knew we wanted Dave for this film, we did a series of little improvisations about family situations that in a way are not from the film at all but can call on the same kind of emotions. Gradually, after a few weeks of this he began to reveal emotional depth and just blew us away. His emotional sensitivity, understanding, and listening — which is a great gift — was what we were looking for in the film.

Director Ken Loach.

When it came to casting the Syrian lead, we looked hard, but we couldn't find someone to play her. So, we got two female film directors, one from Syria and the other who was Palestinian, to give us 30 suggestions. We saw them on Zoom and narrowed it down to three. They came to the northeast of England and we saw them each separately. A couple of days of trying things out with Dave, we saw the connection with Ebla and it was the clear choice. She ended up being rock solid. Their connection was immediate and true to what you see in the film.

O-C: She also plays an amateur photographer. Did she have any of those skills going into the role?

KL: She actually spent some time with our stills photographer Josh Barrett. She was a natural and some of the pictures in the scene where the townspeople watch her photographs were actually shot by Ebla. She made contact with individuals she wanted to photograph just by making connections, taking initiative, getting their support, which is what she does in the film. The photography was a way into discovery.

O-C Not to ignore the other Syrians in the film, so touching to watch.

KL: They were really nervous at the beginning. They’d never been in a film, they didn't go to the cinema, so they were a little apprehensive. Obviously, we made them welcome and after the weekend they were fine. They noticed, us being English, we always stopped for a cup of tea and cakes at four o'clock. A few days into the shoot some of the Syrian mothers made the most fantastic cakes. They made them every day for everyone, and they were so good we added a scene in the film where they offer TJ cakes and a cup of tea. That became the highlight of the day. They were so proud and honoured and in the end those cakes became another way for everyone to bond.

O-C: A very important character in this film, of course, is the pub. Was that hard to find?

KL: It was such a great spot to do this but it had been closed for some years. Fergus, our set designer, went in and revived it. It has a fantastic backroom that we needed when the miners and Syrians came together for meals. We didn't have the resources to build a whole addition to make it bigger which was what was needed but we made it work.

O-C: Bringing everyone together for meals is a strong theme in the film, which brings me to the plaque on the wall of that backroom that is in the film that says, “If you eat together, you stick together.” How important is it to you to share a meal with friends and family?

KL: Sometimes you just have solitary moments and need them but sharing a meal with friends and family is something I love to do. There's nothing greater than meeting and eating together.

O-C: I want to go back to 2006 when your film The Wind that Shakes the Barley premiered at the Toronto International Film Festival. I vividly remember interviewing a young lad who starred in that film, Cillian Murphy. Look at him now, winning a Best Actor Oscar for Oppenheimer. What did you see in him that was special and prompted you to cast him?

KL: He's a wonderful actor. He had done quite a few films when we met, but he's always been something special. I’ll tell you what impressed me about Cillian because even though he was an established actor he was so down to earth. When we cast that film, we were looking at setting it in Cork in southern Ireland. Cillian is from Cork; of course he didn’t have to put on an accent. The character was from a more middle-class family, going to medical school wanting to be a doctor and we just felt that Cillian would be perfect in the role.

We met with a number of actors, and lads who were farm labourers, non-actors but Cillian who was so humble and unassuming that he just stood out. He came with no fanfare, no ego, just willing to work and do anything we asked of him, and in the end gave the most generous performance. It’s so lovely to see all of his accomplishments so many years later and how he’s handled his success. Still the humble boy from Cork. I couldn’t be happier for him.