Original-Cin Q&A: Director and co-star of the darkly comic puppeteering drama share thoughts on marionettes and violence
The new darkly comic female-revenge tale, Judy and Punch is a period piece about a pair of puppeteers in the mythical, landlocked town of Seaside. Judy’s mad puppet skills have made the duo a hit. But Punch is a loose cannon on a collision course with tragedy..
The film stars Australian actors Mia Wasikowska (Alice Through the Looking Glass) as Judy and, as Punch, Damon Herriman (who played Charles Manson in both Once Upon A Time… In Hollywood and Mindhunter). It was written and directed by Mirrah Foulkes in her directorial debut.
Read our review of Judy & Punch
Our Bonnie Laufer spoke with Mirrah and Damon via ZOOM from their respective homes in Australia about working on this film and how the film resonates with us today.
Damon Herriman and Mia Wasikowska in Judy and Punch.
Judy & Punch is available on June 5th - VOD release.
ORIGINAL-CIN: As soon as I finished watching this film, I immediately googled “Punch and Judy” to familiarize myself with the impact that puppet show had. I had really forgotten how violent they were. Mirrah, let's start with you because I wanted to know what started this journey for you. Why did you tackle the film in the way that you did?
MIRRAH FOULKES: “The project kind of came to me by Vice in America. They wanted to make a live action Punch and Judy movie. And they wanted to look at it through a contemporary lens and the idea that this very violent puppet show for children had lasted for such a long time and existed throughout generations.
“So they asked me if I was Interested in writing it and I kind of did a pretty deep dive into a whole bunch of research around Punch and Judy, because I wasn't that familiar with it. I was aware of it, but not that familiar and decided on this idea of creating a fictionalized origin story, setting it the mid 17th century. I wanted it to be a sort of strange world-building exercise, almost sort of fantasy, and for it to be very loose with its historical accuracy.”
OC: Damon, I have to ask you what draws you to these creepy and violent characters?
DAMON HERRIMAN: “Well, I'll tell you those roles have dissipated a little bit. I'm moving onto nice guys for a while now (laughs).
“Truthfully though, sometimes they are the best roles. There's no doubt about it, just juicier, and you can really let your guard down when you play these nasty guys.
“North American audiences have recently seen me in these roles. But when I started acting in Australia, I played lots of nice guys and nerds and I couldn't even get auditions for the bad guys. I knew I could show them how horrible I can be!”
OC: I had so many moments of anxiety watching this movie. But I just have to say two words to both of you. Baby and dog. Discuss! That whole sequence was horrifying!
HERRIMAN: “That's all on Mirrah. I didn't write this thing! It was a difficult scene to shoot on so many levels.”
FOULKES: “My editor had her work cut out for her with those sequences because it's true what they say about working with animals and babies, it's tricky. Those were some of our toughest days on set. It looks seamless, but it's never predictable when you're working with dogs and babies. It was a slow process, especially leading up to the tense moments in that scene.”
OC: Damon, you and Mia have quite the interesting relationship and dynamic in the film. How did you enjoy working with her?
HERRIMAN: “It was lovely. But we knew each other a little beforehand, so it made it easier, especially with some of the more violent scenes we had to shoot. She's just a beautiful human being apart from a beautiful actor.
“It was a really nice dynamic having someone who grounds everything that she does with such an honest truthful performance - which really works and is really necessary for this film, because there are so many crazy characters around her. It gives the audience the opportunity to see the world of Seaside through her eyes, and if it wasn't such an honest performance it would be hard to believe or feel for her. She played the role brilliantly.”
OC: Mirrah, how did you know these two were going to work so well together?
FOULKES: “I just had a feeling and I also know and love them both. They are fantastic actors, but I think there's something about that combination of what Damon brings to Punch and his ability to ground Judy. It just sort of works.
“They had a wonderful rapport and treated each other with the utmost respect and professionalism. I also feel incredibly lucky that I got to kind of work with two people that are just good humans. Because, unfortunately, that's not always the case with some actors.
“The vibe on set was always pretty joyful, and we all got in there and got it done. And there was something really kind of lovely about that. There's very little hierarchy when you're working with actors like Damon and Mia, which made the whole experience very pleasant.”
OC: One thing that struck me, aside from the violence and how it was so accepted when people watch The Punch and Judy shows, was the depiction of the mob mentality. Sadly this really relates to what's going on in our society right now.
FOULKES: “Well I'm really glad that it made you think about the film in a contemporary perspective, because it's absolutely what was striking to me as I was writing it. I kind of found all of these contemporary parallels and I was like, oh God, we haven't evolved at all.”
OC: Unfortunately, not at all.
FOULKES: “It's sort of like these puppets. It started out as these beautiful marionettes, and now we see these clunky soft hand puppets it’s sort of a de-evolution.
“I was fascinated by that, but I also wanted to have a sense of a community which I think always is protected, particularly in times like now, which is able to cut through with a really kind of positive and beautiful message.
“That’s what I tried to create in the Heretics camp where Judy ends up for protection was this sense of - even though we can be so kind of quick to cast someone out socially - I think when outcasts come together and form a sort of a healthy community that's something to aspire to.
“I was often struck by the contemporary parallels and would be writing dialogue for a character like, say, the town Mayor, and suddenly I’d be thinking, ‘Oh, this feels incredibly politically pertinent to some of the current day dictators. And isn't it interesting how language and that mentality can travel up through generations?’ So, it's important and It's very nice for me to hear that it has a sort of contemporary resonance for people while also being fun and silly at times.”
OC: This film was also written before #MeToo. But it also resonates with that movement and highlights domestic violence.
FOULKES: “That’s exactly what the Punch and Judy show did in a way. When you look at these awful violent characters that you’re showing to children, how can you expect it not to filter back into the family home? How are you supposed to break that cycle? In this film Judy addresses that and I tried to show that, for some women, there can be some type of retribution. You can break the cycle.”
OC: Damon, do you think you have a second career as a Puppeteer if this acting thing doesn’t work out?
HERRIMAN: (Laughs) Well, certainly not with marionettes as heavy as the ones we used in the film. The very brief amount of puppeteering that Mia and I had to do was very difficult.
“The puppets you see performing are not us, that was done by actual professionals. But there are lots of shots of us at the top, holding the puppets from above and damn, those things are really heavy. It's really hard.”
FOULKES: “Marionettes are traditionally quite small for that reason. And of course, me not being a puppeteer, I wanted our puppets to be a meter tall, so we built them.
“When we started to shoot, I felt terrible because I had no idea how heavy they were going to be. Even the professional puppeteers were complaining that they were too heavy. And if they were to have performed a real show with these puppets, it could never be done.
“I’ll have to keep this in mind the next time i decide to write a film that requires marionettes!” (Laughs).